Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

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veso266
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Postovi: 9
Pridružio se: 18 Sep 2023, 22:51

Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od veso266 »

Hi there, I am from Slovenia, and since I want everyone to understand me I will write in English, I do understand Serbian, I just don't know how to write it, I asked the same question on Slovenian forum for accordians, but nobody could help me there :(
Hello there I am looking for a chromatic button accordion

The type of music I would like to play consists of Slovenian folk music (Polka, Walts, etc) as well as Serbian Folk Music (Sevdah, regular Folk, etc)

Some examples

Slovenian genre:

Example 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DLUQqX7k48

Example 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgbpNHTfWc

Example 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsZZxjZQOKE

Example 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAxhA1nOtI

Example 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm2ZULktcSg


Serbian genre:

Example 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUY0jBtt0UM

Example 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbB_UnPM5sQ

Example 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4-Q-V5l0GM

This type of music I will mostly play (I hate classical music, exept maybe

Hallelujah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AWFf7EAc4

Tetris theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmCCQxVBfyM

Love Always Comes as a Surprise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggJpNJLpmE

Now I am trying to figure out what type of Cromatic button accordion I need (B griff (system), C griff (system)), or Dugmetara (by dugmetara, I mean 6 rows chromatic button) I managed to find out that no matter the system I choose, I will be able to express myself on eather


But, people around me always tell me that I should pick C system and that slovenian songs will be harder to play on B system


Now a simple practical question

If I choose B system, will my wrist hurt if I play slovenian songs (we use a lot of triplets)?

If I choose C system, will my speed suffer if I play serbian songs?

Why are there 2 systems, is the reason practical or only national? (2 systems realy confuse me)

Whats the point of 6th row in Dugmetara, is this a blessing or a curse?

What I was able to read is that every 2nd row is duplicated, so 1,3,5 and 2,4 on regular chromatic button and 1,3,5 and 2,4,6 on dugmetara (will 6th row limit me how can I play?)


Now, I was able to find a local teacher for B system (serbian living in Slovenia)

But in Slovenia (where I live) you can only find C system on used market (or some music stores), if u are lucky, in fact even being able to try a cromatic button accordian in person is a challange

Of course I could import a dugmetara (Dalape 993A for instance) from Serbia if needed (Serbia (depending on which part of the country) is about 5hour drive from where I live, so not convinient to get an accordian, but doable

I didn't even get started to think how many registers I need (so Slovenian songs will sound like Slovenia, and Serbian songs will sound like Serbia, and the rest of the songs I like will not sound wierd) (I guess I need at least 120 bass one, but the rest is unknown to me)



Pa še po slovensko, če bi bilo slučajno komu lažje brat kot angleško
Dober dan, iščem kromatično harmoniko, vrsta glasbe, ki bi si jo želel igrati je Slovenska narodna in Srbska narodna

Primer Slovenske glasbe:

Primer 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DLUQqX7k48
Primer 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgbpNHTfWc
Primer 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsZZxjZQOKE
Primer 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAxhA1nOtI
Primer 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm2ZULktcSg

Primer Srbske glasbe:

Primer 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUY0jBtt0UM
Primer 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbB_UnPM5sQ
Primer 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4-Q-V5l0GM

Tako glasbo bi najraje igral (klasične glasbe nemaram, razen mogoče

Hallelujah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AWFf7EAc4

Tetris theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmCCQxVBfyM

Love Always Comes as a Surprise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggJpNJLpmE

Zdej me pa zanima katero kromatično harmonika je najbolj primerna (b-griff, c-griff, ali dugmetara)
Dugmera zame pomeni kromatična gumbna z 6 vrsticami

Ljudje okoli mene pravijo da naj raje izberem C griff ker dugmetara (6 vrstična kromatična) je za Srbske pesmi in da se Slovenskih pesmi z njo ne da igrati, zdej jaz tega nevem, a je to res?

Sedaj pa praktična vprašanja
Če izberem B griff, ali me bo potem bolelo zapestje pri igranju slovenskih pesmi (uporabljamo namreč veliko terc)
Če izberem C griff, ali bom lahko hitro igral srbske pesmi (kolote in take reči)?

Zakaj 2 sistema ali sta 2 sistema zaradi praktičnih problemov ali zaradi nacionalnih?

Ali je 6 vrstia pri dugmetari dobro ali slabo (ali me bo omejevala?)
Kakor sem prebral je pri kromatični harmoniki vsaka druga vrsta podvojena
Navadna kromatična (5 vrstna) ima 1,3,5 in 2,4
Dugmetara (6 vrstna) pa ima 1,3,5 in 2,4,6

Zakaj 6 vrsta, čemu služi?

Pri nas v sloveniji, če imaš srečo, lahko najdeš kakšno pigini C sistem kromatično, na bolhi ali pa mogoče v kakšni glasbeni trgovini, dugmetare ne boš našel, zdej lahko bi jo tudi iz Srbije prinesel kakšno Dalape 993A, ni enostavno ampak dalo bi pa se (kakšne 5ur vožnje, ali pa pošti)

Na srečo sem saj enega prijaznega gospoda iz Ljubljane našel, ki bi mi lahko malo razložil kako se igra kromatično harmoniko, on zna B griff igrat

Upam da se vse razume in da bi mi kdo znal odgovorit na moja vprašanja (sorry ko ni po srbsko, samo res ne znam pisat)
I hope this is understandable and someone will be able to anwser my questions (sorry if its not in Serbian, but I realy only know how to read serbian (only latin), not write it properly :) )

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Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od Džoga »

Everything that I can tell from my opinion is that classical european music and serbian genre gives best performance on B Griff system cromatic accordions, for serbian genre we use b system with 6 rows, for classical music same system but 5 rows.
From the competitions where I was a competitor, I saw much people from Slovenia bringing their Diatonic accordions, I saw also that you can find them cheap, so you can get one diatonic for slovenian music and one b griff with 6 rows.
But my advice is to buy b griff system accordion because it is (to me) one incredible instrument, you can achieve a lot with it. It is hard in the beggining but when you start catching the positions of fingers you will see how incredible it is.
B griff and C Griff are the same systems just turned upside down for example:

c d
cis cis
d c

You can find the scheme and everything would be simpler.
Honestly, I would buy "dugmetara" as you say :)

If you need any help feel free to ask.
veso266
Nema harmoniku
Postovi: 9
Pridružio se: 18 Sep 2023, 22:51

Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od veso266 »

Džoga napisao: 19 Sep 2023, 20:52 Everything that I can tell from my opinion is that classical european music and serbian genre gives best performance on B Griff system cromatic accordions, for serbian genre we use b system with 6 rows, for classical music same system but 5 rows.
From the competitions where I was a competitor, I saw much people from Slovenia bringing their Diatonic accordions, I saw also that you can find them cheap, so you can get one diatonic for slovenian music and one b griff with 6 rows.
But my advice is to buy b griff system accordion because it is (to me) one incredible instrument, you can achieve a lot with it. It is hard in the beggining but when you start catching the positions of fingers you will see how incredible it is.
B griff and C Griff are the same systems just turned upside down for example:

c d
cis cis
d c

You can find the scheme and everything would be simpler.
Honestly, I would buy "dugmetara" as you say :)

If you need any help feel free to ask.
Wow thanks, I guess everything suggests I need a dugmetara (6th row chromatic button) then, (I know bass will not have a distinct diatonic sound but thats not a problem for me, as long as sound is the same as Piano accordian makes, I am fine with that) I know for sure I will not play classical music (bach, mozart, etc) since I hate this kind of music

Now how does 6th row help

I found Prelaz kolo is played on 6th row
Can it be played on 5 rows only or even only on 3 rows?

Would be interesting to see a comparison :)

Also, is 6th row a limitation if u dont need it for a particular piece, or its just there waiting to be used?

I also found out that Dallape 993A has 2 counterbass rows (that means it has 140 basses instead of 120)

Why second counterbass row, how does it help?
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Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od Džoga »

I saw the post, I will answer as soon as possible...
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Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od Džoga »

veso266 napisao: 20 Sep 2023, 00:19
Džoga napisao: 19 Sep 2023, 20:52 Everything that I can tell from my opinion is that classical european music and serbian genre gives best performance on B Griff system cromatic accordions, for serbian genre we use b system with 6 rows, for classical music same system but 5 rows.
From the competitions where I was a competitor, I saw much people from Slovenia bringing their Diatonic accordions, I saw also that you can find them cheap, so you can get one diatonic for slovenian music and one b griff with 6 rows.
But my advice is to buy b griff system accordion because it is (to me) one incredible instrument, you can achieve a lot with it. It is hard in the beggining but when you start catching the positions of fingers you will see how incredible it is.
B griff and C Griff are the same systems just turned upside down for example:

c d
cis cis
d c

You can find the scheme and everything would be simpler.
Honestly, I would buy "dugmetara" as you say :)

If you need any help feel free to ask.
Wow thanks, I guess everything suggests I need a dugmetara (6th row chromatic button) then, (I know bass will not have a distinct diatonic sound but thats not a problem for me, as long as sound is the same as Piano accordian makes, I am fine with that) I know for sure I will not play classical music (bach, mozart, etc) since I hate this kind of music

Now how does 6th row help

I found Prelaz kolo is played on 6th row
Can it be played on 5 rows only or even only on 3 rows?

Would be interesting to see a comparison :)

Also, is 6th row a limitation if u dont need it for a particular piece, or its just there waiting to be used?

I also found out that Dallape 993A has 2 counterbass rows (that means it has 140 basses instead of 120)

Why second counterbass row, how does it help?
First 3 rows on "dugmetara" are basic c cis d c cis d c cis d six row
three row dis e f dis e f dis e f
fis g gis..... fis g gis fis g gis

Other 3 rows are exactly same as first three like some sort of a imitation of them as you can see above.

Prelaz kolo could be played on 5 rows but it will not get the effect as it gets on 6 rows. You could even try playing it on 3 rows but in my opinion thats crazy :lol:

I could make a video playing prelaz kolo on dugmetara and on five rows if you want, the difference is only in last part.

Dallape 993a and every other accordion with 140bass has second counterbass row and with it you get minor third, for example C is basic bass after it you have major third in first counterbass row E and in second counterbass row you have Eb
It helps a lot in serbian music because the kolo in minor is used quite often with c minor with c and then with eb or the minor third.
veso266
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Postovi: 9
Pridružio se: 18 Sep 2023, 22:51

Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od veso266 »

Džoga napisao: 20 Sep 2023, 18:56
veso266 napisao: 20 Sep 2023, 00:19
Džoga napisao: 19 Sep 2023, 20:52 Everything that I can tell from my opinion is that classical european music and serbian genre gives best performance on B Griff system cromatic accordions, for serbian genre we use b system with 6 rows, for classical music same system but 5 rows.
From the competitions where I was a competitor, I saw much people from Slovenia bringing their Diatonic accordions, I saw also that you can find them cheap, so you can get one diatonic for slovenian music and one b griff with 6 rows.
But my advice is to buy b griff system accordion because it is (to me) one incredible instrument, you can achieve a lot with it. It is hard in the beggining but when you start catching the positions of fingers you will see how incredible it is.
B griff and C Griff are the same systems just turned upside down for example:

c d
cis cis
d c

You can find the scheme and everything would be simpler.
Honestly, I would buy "dugmetara" as you say :)

If you need any help feel free to ask.
Wow thanks, I guess everything suggests I need a dugmetara (6th row chromatic button) then, (I know bass will not have a distinct diatonic sound but thats not a problem for me, as long as sound is the same as Piano accordian makes, I am fine with that) I know for sure I will not play classical music (bach, mozart, etc) since I hate this kind of music

Now how does 6th row help

I found Prelaz kolo is played on 6th row
Can it be played on 5 rows only or even only on 3 rows?

Would be interesting to see a comparison :)

Also, is 6th row a limitation if u dont need it for a particular piece, or its just there waiting to be used?

I also found out that Dallape 993A has 2 counterbass rows (that means it has 140 basses instead of 120)

Why second counterbass row, how does it help?
First 3 rows on "dugmetara" are basic c cis d c cis d c cis d six row
three row dis e f dis e f dis e f
fis g gis..... fis g gis fis g gis

Other 3 rows are exactly same as first three like some sort of a imitation of them as you can see above.

Prelaz kolo could be played on 5 rows but it will not get the effect as it gets on 6 rows. You could even try playing it on 3 rows but in my opinion thats crazy :lol:

I could make a video playing prelaz kolo on dugmetara and on five rows if you want, the difference is only in last part.

Dallape 993a and every other accordion with 140bass has second counterbass row and with it you get minor third, for example C is basic bass after it you have major third in first counterbass row E and in second counterbass row you have Eb
It helps a lot in serbian music because the kolo in minor is used quite often with c minor with c and then with eb or the minor third.
Would love to see you play prelaz kolo on five and six rows just to compare :)

You could even try on 3 rows if time allows it :), not sure why this would be crazy, after all bayan started on 3 rows only, then expanded on 5 (if I read internet corecly)

Also, do you play second counterbass with 4th finger just like the regular counterbass?

I like dugmetara, it offers you more options that you can use or not use, however u want

I like extra options
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Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od Džoga »

It would be crazy because its little space for so much music, I will try tommorow and I will send the video. For prelaz kolo you need at least five rows to sound effective and as original.
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Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od Džoga »

Yes, I play the second counterbass with 4th finger sometimes in when I play compositions from Jovica Petkovic (Omer Beže, Oj Prijedore....) I use quite often 2th i 3th
veso266
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Pridružio se: 18 Sep 2023, 22:51

Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od veso266 »

Džoga napisao: 21 Sep 2023, 00:15 Yes, I play the second counterbass with 4th finger sometimes in when I play compositions from Jovica Petkovic (Omer Beže, Oj Prijedore....) I use quite often 2th i 3th
Did u manage to play something :)

Now I need to figure out what dugmetara I need to get and it needs to fit inside my 2000€ (preferably less) budget :)

The only companies that I know that make them are Dallape and Siwa & Figli

Now, Dallape has 2 models it seams (Organtone 993A, which is quite common and prices are good) and SuperMaestro (which seams better, but I couldn't realy find a difference between theese 2 exept the price (more expensive then Organtone)

Siwa & Figli has many models, I like Super Quattro but finding one on used market is a challenge

Now Dallapes are a bit more common it seams on used market while I find Siwa & Figli more aesthetically apealing

Any more brands that make 6 rows (šesto redne) dugmetaras

Also any more used markets?
The onlything I know is
https://kupujemprodajem.com/ (for Serbia)
https://olx.ba/ (for BiH)

BiH is closer to me, so the best thing would probably be if I find something in Republika Srbska, which means I could actualy drive there and try it out in person

And yes, I am looking to buy the best accordion in terms of what notes I can produce with it, weigth is not a problem, since you can always workout more, its harder to get a new accordion if you find out that a song you want to play wants a diminished bass or is made for a specific register and your accordion does not have it
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Re: Kateo kromatično harmoniko izbrati

Post od Džoga »

veso266 napisao: 23 Sep 2023, 14:39
Džoga napisao: 21 Sep 2023, 00:15 Yes, I play the second counterbass with 4th finger sometimes in when I play compositions from Jovica Petkovic (Omer Beže, Oj Prijedore....) I use quite often 2th i 3th
Did u manage to play something :)

Now I need to figure out what dugmetara I need to get and it needs to fit inside my 2000€ (preferably less) budget :)

The only companies that I know that make them are Dallape and Siwa & Figli

Now, Dallape has 2 models it seams (Organtone 993A, which is quite common and prices are good) and SuperMaestro (which seams better, but I couldn't realy find a difference between theese 2 exept the price (more expensive then Organtone)

Siwa & Figli has many models, I like Super Quattro but finding one on used market is a challenge

Now Dallapes are a bit more common it seams on used market while I find Siwa & Figli more aesthetically apealing

Any more brands that make 6 rows (šesto redne) dugmetaras

Also any more used markets?
The onlything I know is
https://kupujemprodajem.com/ (for Serbia)
https://olx.ba/ (for BiH)

BiH is closer to me, so the best thing would probably be if I find something in Republika Srbska, which means I could actualy drive there and try it out in person

And yes, I am looking to buy the best accordion in terms of what notes I can produce with it, weigth is not a problem, since you can always workout more, its harder to get a new accordion if you find out that a song you want to play wants a diminished bass or is made for a specific register and your accordion does not have it
There is much more Manufactures of Dugmetara accordions, Guerrini, Dallape, Scandalli, Beltuna, Bugari, Settimio Soprani...
If you are looking for cheap models, you could try finding R.R (Ručni Rad) HandMade.
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